"I took the the “no manel pledge” about five years ago. I said that I wasn't going to appear on, panels that were all men, and then I wasn't going to appear in conference sessions that that that were all mail. You know, at first you think, you know, I'm going to look like an idiot, and I'm going to be making lots of trouble for lots of people, actually, my experience was completely different. Usually, when I, when I pointed this out to people organizing panels, or conference organizers, they were so thankful that I pointed it out, right, because that's just something that had slipped by them."